Re: Questions about Fluid Condensers

["peter_reist <peter_reist@...>" <peter_reist@...>]

Dear Rawn,

>>>>>Jeesh! You're really keeping me on my toes today, Peter! ;-) 
After I'm done with this one, my poor brain's gonna need a long 
rest! ;-) ;-)<<<<<

Always glad to be of service. :-) I just do this naturally at times: 
asking the hard, complex questions on topics that no body really 
seems to speak about all that much for one reason or another. Also, 
don't worry, there's plenty more where this came from.

>>>>>EVERY thing is composed of the Fluids and their Elements. So, in 
this sense, form itself is a sort of Fluid *combiner*. This is 
different from a Fluid *condenser* in that the condenser can hold 
onto an additional accumulation of the Fluids, separate from the 
Fluids which compose its form. Another thing that distinguishes a 
condenser from other forms is that holding onto a really, really 
intense accumulation will not harm the condenser itself.<<<<<

Alright, this is starting to make a little bit more sense too me now. 
Though there are still quite a few questions that keep on popping up 
in my mind to try and make sense of this all.

While everything is composed of the fluids and the elements, due to 
the intrinsic nature of form that is manifest. So what is it that 
keeps these elements and fluids bound together in form? The existence 
of all four elements within all things?

>>>>>The human being can be *transformed into* a Fluid condenser, but 
without this work of self-transformation, the human body is not, 
strictly speaking, a natural condenser. For example, when you load 
another person with an accumulation of a Fluid/Element, it will, with 
time, dissipate. The body does not *automatically* hold the 
accumulation. Plus, the body can be easily damaged by too intense an 
accumulation being present for too long a time.<<<<<

>From my personal experience, the process of self-transformation is a 
rather long and sometimes rather painful task that takes a multitude 
of lifetimes to complete. Yet, at the very same time, the process 
which Bardon describes as to how to create a fluid condenser is a 
relatively simple process that doesn't take overly that much time to 
complete. So, how does the process of changing the self, which itself 
consists of the fluids and elements, into a fluid condenser differs 
from the transformation of the plants that Bardon lists as being the 
key ingredients in creating a universal fluid condenser into a 
universal fluid condenser? Is not both the human body, and such plant 
material, consist of the same fluids and condesners? Albeit, perhaps 
in different levels of elemental and fluid concentrations?

When trying to heal someone by loading them with an accumulation of 
specific elements/fluids, how is the effect take place? If health is 
defined as a healthy elemental equilibrium and dis-ease is defined as 
an imbalance in the elemental equilibrium, usually a quite radical 
one, then would not attempting to heal a person through the 
elements/fluids be just a temporary fix? After all, with time, the 
accumulated elements/fluids that was projected into the other person 
would dissipate in time, perhaps resulting in the original dis-ease 
returning as the elemental imbalance returns. Also, wouldn't loading 
a person with that amount of charge effect them negatively? Or does 
an accumulated charge dissipate from a living body before it can do 
any serious damage? Or is my methodology behind healing via the 
elements and fluids totally off base?

>>>>>By following the Bardon training you are transforming yourself 
in the ways necessary for you to become a Fluid/Element condenser 
which will automatically *hold* an accumulated charge for as long as 
desired, without harm. In certain circumstances this is a useful 
ability since it frees the consciousness from the labor of recharging 
an accumulation during an overly-long ritual. But then again, it's a 
minor advantage since the same effect can be accomplished in other 
ways (such as loading a separate condenser).<<<<

Isn't this, in effect, what one should be working on in the physical 
exercises of step 4 in IIH? Gaining the ability to create and direct 
an accumulated charge towards a specific goal via the use of certain 
gestures.

How would the ability to hold an accumulated charge for as long as 
desired effect one's elemental equilibrium? After all, if you held 
onto a charge of electric fluid then an imbalance has been produced. 
Or could one counteract this by holding onto a charge of both the 
fluids and all four of the elements?

>>>>>Yes. This is *part of* the transformation process that enables 
your bodies to actually hold an accumulation without damage and 
without the need for constant replenishment. It's very much akin to 
what an Alchemist does to the materia at certain stages, wherein a 
process is repeated over and over until the materia reaches a certain 
fluidity. The structure of the materia is factually altered and this 
leads to new characteristics and capacities, etc.<<<<<

Is also possible to create a fluid condenser by repeatedly loading 
something and letting the charge dissipate until the charge no longer 
dissipates at all? How would this sort of fluid condenser differ from 
the fluid condensers that Bardon describes in IIH? Would there be any 
real qualitative or quantitative differences between these two types 
of fluid condensers?

If it is possible to create a fluid condenser by repeated, and 
increased accumulation, of a charge, the I can see quite a number of 
things that might be considered fluid condensers in a loose sense of 
the term, language in and of itself being one of the first to come to 
the forefront of my mind. Words being attached to certain emotions as 
they are spoken, allowing for the elemental charge of the emotion to 
seep into the cognitive matrix that makes up that word. Symbols would 
be another such thing that could be potentially created into such a 
fluid condenser. Religious symbols such as the cross being a prime 
example of this as it is widely used and recognized, and therefore 
has a greater ability to maintain a charge. Whereas a lesser known 
symbol, such as the fish within Christianity does not have the same 
sort of effect as the cross. From symbols one can extrapolate into 
the realm of dreams and mythology. And from there I seem to be coming 
to the logical conclusion that many things can potentially become a 
fluid condenser in this manner. It is just up to the magician to 
learn how to utilize all this. I'm really going to have to meditate 
on this for some time.

>>>>>The preparatory Steps of KTQ are a continuation of the 
aforementioned process of transformation of the materia, but at a 
higher pitch, so to speak. In order for the KTQ transformations to 
have the correct effect upon the individual, the prerequisite 
transformations (Steps One through Eight of IIH) must already have 
taken firm hold. In other words, the preparatory Steps of KTQ only 
work (properly) upon a sufficiently prepared materia. Only after the 
materia has been transform again by the KTQ preparatory work, is one 
able to then *speak* Kabbalistically.<<<<<<

As I have stated elsewhere, in the past, I had, and still have to a 
certain extent, a tendency to work at things in a non-linear manner. 
In other words I'd be working on various exercises of steps two, 
five, seven and eight of IIH at relatively the same time. A few 
months ago I even ventured to try step one of KTQ, which, to be 
honest, had a rather profound positive impact on my attitude and 
character. Granted, the effect that took place might not be rightly 
considered to be the proper transformation that would take place 
within a student that is properly prepared, which I don't consider 
myself to be, but it is a positive change never the less.

At the present moment, I'm working in a far more systematic method 
through which I am starting at step one in IIH and working my way 
through them, one after the other, till I've gained a reasonable 
level of efficiency.

>>>>>Kabbalistic speech itself however, is *more than* a condenser. 
It's more akin to a Philosopher's Stone in that it *automatically* 
accumulates, combines and sets into motion, the Fluids, without the 
need for loading by the magician. Kabbalistic speech is a creative 
act that *instantly* gives *form to* the raw, undifferentiated 
Fluids/Elements.<<<<<

Okay, this makes sense. Quabalahistic speach = the ability to make 
form from force. Which in turn seems to be a short from for the 
exercises that one finds within the step 4 physical training of IIH.

Digressing back to a point you made in a previous posting, you noted 
that a physical fluid condenser, would effect the physical, astral 
and mental planes. Whereas an astral fluid condenser would only 
effect the astral and mental planes, and a mental fluid condenser 
would effect only the mental plane. At the present moment my mind 
does not want to comprehend this for one reason or another. So, why 
is this? Doesn't an effect on the mental plane in turn effect the 
astral, which in turn effects the physical, and vis a vis? 

Live well, and try not to get too many headaches from reading all 
this!
Peter Reist