Re: does BardonPraxis combine with shaman rituals?

["peter_reist" <peter_reist@...>]

Dear Viraj,

>From my understanding of shamanism, the use of psychotropic drugs and 
plants is something that is only done after the initial and thoughal 
training of the mind, body and soul. Without this sort of training, 
the use of such a drug can be deprimental to all three aspects of the 
self. Moreover, without this sort of training prior to the ingestion 
of such hallucinogens, all that is produced is an 
uncontrolable "trip". The shaman has to express complete control over 
himself and the spirits that he is working with. If he does not, then 
he is not a shaman.

Dear Rawn,

>>>Shamanism and Bardonism are not incompatible, however, they both 
require a distinctly different sort of training.<<<

I'd agree with you on the point that shamanism and Bardonism are not 
incompatible. However, I have to disagree with you on the point that 
they require a different sort of training. This becomes particularly 
evident when one looks at the work of evocation, mental wandering, 
the creation of elementals and creative visualization. All of which 
have their equivelent within most shamanic traditions that I have 
researched. Mind you, the shaman works primarily within a paradigm 
that consists of different spirits and not different qualities of 
energy...so there are distinct differences.

In most respects, you can look at any magical or esoteric tradition 
and trace it's roots back to shamanism if you really want too. The 
theory and practice of the art is just updated to suit the times that 
the tradition exists within.

Love and Live well,
Peter Reist

--- In BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com, "Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@n...> 
wrote:
> Dear Viraj,
> 
> >> i have a question concerning the use of ayahuasca: can those 
plants
> help to heal and prepare the different bodys for expansion, are they
> beneficial even in long term? or is the effect just limited to the 
time
> of use and there is no substitute for practice and work? or is the 
use
> of natural psycedelics
> (the shaman way) even contradictory to bardon praxis? <<
> 
> There's a LOT more to the Shamanic path than just taking a few
> hallucinogens! ;-) There's no less "practice and work" to the 
Shamanic
> path than there is in the Hermetic path. In the right context, the 
use
> of psychedelics can indeed have long-term healing effects, but in 
the
> wrong context the exact opposite can easily result and there can 
occur a
> magnification of dis-ease. If you're truly interested in exploring 
that
> avenue, then I suggest you hook up with a *real* Shaman and ask for 
some
> guidance.
> 
> Shamanism and Bardonism are not incompatible, however, they both 
require
> a distinctly different sort of training.
> 
> >> i am still struggeling with step one, means trying to keep 
vigilant
> in meditation and aware in daily life. and i have the feeling that i
> need some support to get out of my fixed patterns of life, to heal 
some
> issues in the body wich keep me dull and weak. <<
> 
> First off, stop *struggling*. ;-) Seriously, let go of that mind-
set
> of 'struggle'. Instead, relax into it. Otherwise, it will become a
> burden very quickly and you'll get discouraged, which is no fun.
> 
> Secondly, I'd suggest some other healing modality than taking
> psychedelics. If you're into Shamanic traditions, I'd suggest 
seeking
> out a Sweat Lodge Ceremony with a *real* Med'cine Person. 
Otherwise,
> something along the lines of Ayruveda, Chinese Medicine, etc., . . .
> something that addresses the *whole* person.
> 
> And thirdly, the major portion of the work of character 
transformation
> begins with Step Two. With Step One, you're just taking stock of 
the
> inner territory, but in Step Two you really begin making changes to 
the
> inner landscape. These are the techniques which will get you out of
> those fixed patterns and help you to heal those internal issues 
which
> are keeping you "dull and weak".
> 
> If you've already finished the construction of your positive and
> negative Soul Mirrors, but are still working your way through the
> meditation exercises, then I suggest that you look ahead to Step 
Two and
> check into the techniques that Bardon described for use in the 
character
> transformation. There would be no harm in your applying them to the
> central issues that are making you feel the way you've described.
> 
> My best to you,
> :) Rawn Clark
> 27 Jun 2003
> rawnclark@n...
> rawn@a...
> http://www.ABardonCompanion.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BardonPraxis
> http://E.webring.com/hub?ring=arionthebardonwe