Re: [BardonPraxis] Re: Does Water give form to Fire ? - complement to my question

[Newbieonekenhobby <newbieonekenhobby@...>]

Many thanks, mj.

To close this subject, the fact that I asked this
question concerning the theory (as did others for
other subjects) does not mean that I *limit* myself to
theory, at the expenses of my practice :-)

However, the experiences related by the other students
showed me that I can limit my efforts on this side for
a little while.

With my best messages
NB

--- forestofsymbols <forestofsymbols@...> wrote:
> 
> NB,
> 
> > <<It might help if rather than thinking of these
> > things in the abstract, you find some experiences
> to
> > tie them to, to make them real for yourself. >>
> > 
> > Can you elaborate, please ? I'm interested in all
> > possible ways to improve my meditations on the
> > Elements - and the questions they raise. Thanks in
> > advance.
> 
> I can elaborate only a very little. I'm not so
> far on this path 
> myself. 
> 
> It seems to me that the first rule of esoteric
> study is to accept 
> nothing, verify everything. We could talk all day
> about cats, their 
> shape, color, disposition and habits, but nothing
> will teach you as 
> much about cats as actually seeing one, hearing one,
> interacting with 
> one. When you speak of the Element Fire, what do you
> mean? Have you 
> seen it, interacted with it, felt it, known it? What
> experiences have 
> you had, physically, emotionally, and mentally could
> you connect with 
> the vague concept of Fire? For me, Fire is hot and
> expanding, 
> energetic. You can light a candle and watch it, feel
> it, think about 
> it, observe yourself and see what feelings and
> thoughts it inspires. 
> You can sit in the sun on a summer day, feel it, the
> heat on the 
> skin, the jumpiness in the mind, the muscular
> tension and discomfort 
> that comes. Watch yourself when you grow angry, you
> can actually feel 
> the heat flash through your body and cloud your
> mind. All of these 
> things will give you actual first hand experiences
> that you can draw 
> on and tie to the abstract symbol of "Fire." For me,
> this is all a 
> corollary from the exercises of the first step,
> namely thought 
> observation. 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> mj
> 
> --- In BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com,
> Newbieonekenhobby 
> <newbieonekenhobby@y...> wrote:
> > Dear forestofsymbols,
> > 
> > Many thanks for your message.
> > 
> > <<it sounds like you might be confusing the
> elements
> > (fire, water, earth, air, and ether) and the
> levels
> > (physical, astral, mental). >>
> > 
> > I re-read my message, and I understand your
> feeling
> > :-). English is not my mother tongue (as you may
> have
> > guessed :-) and the following sentence,
> particularly,
> > could have been written more carefully :
> > -----
> > does the "shaping" of the raw energy issued by
> Fire
> > take place at the Water level ?
> > -----
> > What I meant was simply "is the raw energy issued
> by
> > Fire shaped by Water".
> > In spite of my clumsly wording, I don't have the
> > feeling I made a confusion between Elements and
> Planes
> > (...although physical corresponds to the Earth
> > Element, astral to the Water Element, Mental to
> the
> > Fire Element etc., ... and knowing that Astral is
> an
> > intermediary between Mental and Physical. Aarghh.
> > Just wanted to ensure I confused everybody :-) :-)
> > 
> > Given the correspondance just mentionned above, I
> was
> > tempted to answer myself "yes" to my own question
> > (does water give form to Fire). But I'm still not
> > sure.
> > 
> > The question I asked is valid for all planes, not
> only
> > the physical one.
> > 
> > <<It might help if rather than thinking of these
> > things in the abstract, you find some experiences
> to
> > tie them to, to make them real for yourself. >>
> > 
> > Can you elaborate, please ? I'm interested in all
> > possible ways to improve my meditations on the
> > Elements - and the questions they raise. Thanks in
> > advance.
> > 
> > Greetings
> > NB
> > 
> > 
> > --- forestofsymbols <forestofsymbols@y...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Others may disagee, but it sounds like you
> might
> > > be confusing the 
> > > elements (fire, water, earth, air, and ether)
> and
> > > the levels 
> > > (physical, astral, mental). Further, it seems
> that
> > > you are also 
> > > confining the element "earth" to the physical
> level
> > > alone. It might 
> > > help if rather than thinking of these things in
> the
> > > abstract, you 
> > > find some experiences to tie them to, to make
> them
> > > real for yourself. 
> > > This was my own mistake as I've recently
> discovered.
> > > 
> > > mj
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com,
> > > Newbieonekenhobby 
> > > <newbieonekenhobby@y...> wrote:
> > > > Oops. Here are a few sentences I forgot to
> > > include. 
> > > > 
> > > > I know that the actual *solidification* ("let
> it
> > > be
> > > > done") takes place at the Earth Element -
> > > > electromagnetic level.
> > > > 
> > > > My question is not about this level:
> > > solidification is
> > > > distinct from shaping IMHO. My question is
> really
> > > > about the original "Intention/Design" : does
> the
> > > > "shaping" of the raw energy issued by Fire
> take
> > > place
> > > > at the Water level ?
> > > > 
> > > > May sound confusing (and confused) to the
> other
> > > > students. I apologize ...but I still need to
> know,
> > > > because till now I believed that Water was
> > > > "shrinking", so to speak, something already
> formed
> > > and
> > > > solidified at another level, but I did not
> imagine
> > > > that it was taking a role in the shaping
> process.
> > > > 
> > > > Ok. I'll stop worsening my case :-)
> > > > 
> > > > Many thanks
> > > > NB
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- newbieonekenhobby <newbieonekenhobby@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > In Rawn's comments on IIH, I read in the
> "Theory
> > > > > Section": 
> > > > > 
> > > > > <<The magnetic Fluid *gives form* to the
> > > Electric
> > > > > force>> (emphasis 
> > > > > mine). 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Taking this literally, meaning that the
> creation
> 
=== message truncated ===


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