Re: an observation on the positive soul mirror - lying and lies

["David Yeh" <ldreamr@...>]

Hi,

I agree with your statement that lying is often an attempt to avoid 
responsibility or consequence.

It seems that we are talking about at least two different kinds of 
lying: lying to oneself, and lying to other people. Or, more 
clearly: having the intent to obscure one's own awareness, or having 
the intent to misdirect the awareness of others.

I think we all agree that lying to oneself blocks energy flow and 
hinders our growth. I think we would also all agree that lying to 
other people in order to relieve ourselves of responsibility can 
prevent us from the growth we need.

I would suggest, however, that not all lies have that intent or that 
effect. Maybe it's in the way I define "lies." Consider, for 
instance, going into another culture, one in which, if you are known 
to be homosexual, you will be arrested and put to death. Let's say 
you are homosexual, and someone asks you point-blank very loudly if 
you are homosexual. What do you do?

Or even something much less dramatic than that. You enter a 
different culture and everyone insists that you eat fruit before you 
begin a meal, even though that's not your usual habit. So you do. 
In my opinion, that can be interpreted as a false presentation of 
yourself because it is not an expression of who you usually are. But 
then again, what is REAL? If you tell the truth but leave out a part 
that seems unimportant, is that lying? Well, it can be.

Certainly lying to other people is a way of protecting ourselves from 
consequences. But you could also see it as a way to maneuver freely 
in the world. Why fight battles that are unnecessary? Choose only 
the ones that have the most opportunity for growth or insight.

Say you're really depressed but you don't feel like talking about 
it. How do you respond to the question a passing acquaintance poses 
you, "How's it going?"

It seems to me that lying is in the intent. Certainly it can hinder 
your own growth. But things in this world are, in their own way, 
camouflaged. I think our own growth certainly depends on seeing 
through our own lies to the clarity and emptiness within ourselves. 
I mean, ultimately, all of our thoughts about ourselves are lies, as 
you alluded to. "I'm ugly. I'm fat. I'm great. I need to get a 
haircut." They are judgments, not inherently true but true because 
we believe in them; they could as easily be lies if we didn't believe 
them.

In order to function normally in the mundane world, in which lies are 
built in to the reality we occupy, we must lie. As long as we strive 
to eliminate the lies in ourselves, we are on the right track.

And my original point was that for me, learning how to lie well to 
certain people in certain situations is a very handy survival skill, 
without which I would not have dealt with the situation as easily. I 
feel that it has not cost me my growth, but it has cost me some 
aspects of my relationships with those people. But I cannot control 
other people's beliefs or reactions, and that is a battle I choose 
not to fight at this point.


Thanks,
David


--- In BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com, "xullux" <luxxul@h...> wrote:
> Greetings. 
> 
> In my experience, given that we all lie, either to ourselves, in 
our 
> ignorance or positively with intent, etc. The focus on more truth 
and 
> less lie reveals ones true intent to oneself and develops courage, 
> awareness, strength and far less confusion within as well as 
without. 
> It is also much more difficult to manifest that the *avoiding lie*.
> 
> I also believe, lying is our personality based attempt to avoid 
> consequence (consequence may smply be the effort required to 
> eliminate our self-ignorance in the matter) for our truth (or our 
> ignorance) and the avoidance of modifying our delivery of that 
truth 
> with greater compassion for ourselves as well as for others. 
> 
> I believe great mysteries are left undiscovered in the midst of our 
> lies.
> 
> One certainly may accept lying as a fact and a truth of life... to 
> UTILIZE this fact as a means to remove our responsibility in 
refining 
> that lie to a lesser lie/closer truth may limit the opportunity 
> within the lie and consequently, our own self development. 
> 
> IE - it actually prolongs our weakness and dependence upon that 
lie 
> within the illusion of gaining us a temporary optional strength. 
> 
> A lie is in itself a lie that we lie to ourselves and suspend our 
own 
> truth (again) to believe long enough to share its desceit with 
> another who in turn believes our lie as a truth. 
> 
> The theft of something seemingly materially insignificant. That 
> judgement compounds the lie again and we avoid determining our real 
> truth.
> 
> I often reflect that one lie is actually the parent of several at 
the 
> moment of conception. 
> 
> There is a place between the light and in the space of 
> forgetfullness, avoidance and darkness. 
> 
> What habitation does it provide for? What seeks to live and 
influence 
> within our psychies there and remain unseen parts of our 
> personalities? Ever influencing and ever evaded? Overlooked and 
> forgotten whenever sought. At least at first.
> 
> I appreciate your candor.
> 
> Thank you.
> :T:
>